From Animation Production Trenches to Creative Executive: Kevin Noel's Journey

Alexis and Natalie chat with Kevin Noel about his journey from production to creative exec, share what animation executives actually do day-to-day, and reveal the story behind Natalie’s “Taco Bell” nickname.

Transcript

Alexis 0:08

I'm Alexis Jacobson. I'm Natalie DeJohn. Welcome to the Production Desk, a podcast about the people and process of animation production. Nat, good morning. Happy Sunday. How are you?

Natalie 0:30

Good morning. I'm good. I don't have Sunday scarries yet, so that's good.

Speaker 4 0:36

It's early for Sunday scarries. I totally am with you on that. But yeah, come 10 o'clock tonight, I'll be like, oh crap.

Speaker 2 0:43

Here we go. Sometimes they sneak in early though. So I feel happy that they're not. Maybe because I'm distracted because I'm making a podcast.

Speaker 4 0:50

Oh well, I will aim to distract you as long as I can for this morning. Thank you. It's good to see you. I feel like GaWeek in production time feels always like so much longer. Yeah, it's like years. I know. I feel like I haven't seen you in years.

Speaker 2 1:04

I'm aging so quickly every time I see you.

Speaker 4 1:08

It is shocking. So we had someone write into us that I know, which is like so exciting that they got one of the meeting conversation starters and were playing with it, and they had feedback about whether or not it was successful. So we would just like to say that someone who has listened to the podcast has used raisin before a meeting.

Speaker 2 1:32

The one Steph suggested. Yep.

Speaker 4 1:34

Raisin gate from Disney. And it is proven to work. I guess it actually sounds like it delayed the meeting. The topic of raisins is a very controversial thing. Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 1:47

The raisin stalling tactic.

Speaker 4 1:51

Oh my gosh. I love that somebody used it. Me too. I was so touched. I need to drop it in. I haven't tried it yet. I haven't either, but I think that's because everyone's been so punctual. Oh, that's such a wonderful problem to have.

Speaker 2 2:05

I know. But I'll keep it in my back pocket. That's so cool. I will as well.

Speaker 4 2:10

Please continue to write in to us. We love hearing anything and all the things. Okay. Should we get into our episode? Tell people what they're in for. I'm really excited about this one because we're going kind of to a role that we have not touched on very much yet.

Speaker 2 2:25

Yes. We thought it would be fun to do an episode about animation studio executives. And just figure out like, what do they do? What are those roles? What do what is like the day-to-day like? Because there's maybe a bit of a barrier between production and studio execs. I think Alexis and I are both fans of the TV show The Studio. I love it so much. And I've heard of a lot of people in animation who are like big fans just because it touches on, you know, topics and people, people that we all know, which I think is very funny, the speculation as to who is what. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And the way certain decisions are made. You know, I'll speak for myself. I might do a little eye rolling sometimes. Like, what are executives thinking? Or there's often jokes about types of notes that executives give. So I thought this would be a fun episode, especially with this guest, Kevin Noel, who's a friend of mine. We worked together many years ago in production, and he worked through the production trenches and is now a creative exec at Sony Pictures Animation. And I thought, who better to tell us? Like, what do executives do all day? What's the deal? Fill us in. So that's kind of the reason for this episode. If you don't know Kevin, let me give a little quick bio for him. I know we just said he works at Sony Pictures Animation as the senior vice president of Creative, which means he's responsible for helping Shepard feature and series projects through the production pipelines from development all the way through post. He was also the executive producer on Sony Pictures Animation's first ever adult animated series, Agent Elvis, which is cool. And most interestingly, he was one of the first staff members at Sony Pictures Animation ever. Started out as an assistant to uh, I think the producers on their first movie open season. So he's been there from the beginning, which is very cool. And I hope you all like the episode. Hi, Kevin. We're super excited for this interview because I realized Alexis only knows Kevin as an SVP at Sony Pictures Animation, but I know Kevin from our coordinator days on Smurfs. We also work together on Hotel Transylvania. He was slumming it with us production folks for a long time. So it's been so fun to watch your your career trajectory and now have you on the podcast. So welcome.

Speaker 4:57

You know the real me. So there you go.

Speaker 2 5:03

And I've told Kevin that I'm not gonna go easy on him in this interview just because he's a fancy executive. So I hope you're prepared, Kevin.

Speaker 5:11

You didn't tell me that.

Speaker 2 5:13

I did.

Speaker 5:14

I'm just kidding. Uh I'm I'm very excited and honored to be here. And it's uh good to see you both. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 5:21

Our first question is actually not too much of a hardball question. So we'll start easy, but we'd love to know how you got your foot in the door of animation. And I realize I don't know that story, so it'll be news to me too.

Speaker 5:33

My animation journey begins in what I assume is the same way that many animation production people start. And that's I just fell into it. I can't draw well, and I didn't think in a million years I would work in animation, but I was always a cartoon nerd, a huge cartoon nerd. I'm like a child of the 80s, and I grew up on shows like Transformers and Masters of the Universe and Robotech, all of these animated series that were essentially made to sell toys to get me to convince my parents to buy toys. But for me, it was like peak television. And then later I got into anime and the Cartoon Network stuff. So I've always respected the medium, but I just never thought it was for me. My first job in entertainment was at a company called Three Arts Entertainment, and they're a talent management and production company. And I started in the mailroom. So that's sort of my, you know, typical Hollywood journey. I started in the mail room and I worked my way up and became an executive assistant to a talent manager and producer there. And how I got into animation was one of our clients was offered a role on Spa's Sony Pictures Animation's first CG feature open season. It was Deborah Messang, and she ended up playing the role of Beth in that movie, for anybody that remembers that movie. So that's not to date myself, but that's how long I've been in it.

Speaker 2 6:47

Can I interject real quick, Kevin?

Speaker 6:48

Yeah, please do.

Speaker 2 6:49

I want to start doing this for listeners, kind of digging into the lingo. So Sony Pictures Animation, we often refer to as SPA is the acronym SPA. So for listeners who are like, what's SPA? That's that's what we're talking about.

Speaker 7:01

And it also sounds just like a delight to show up to work at Spa. I guess that's my design. But yeah, you know, at the time I was trying to figure out what was next for me in my career. Working at three arts and that side of the business, I learned a ton about the industry, but I wasn't necessarily interested in pursuing a career in representation. And what I thought I wanted, and what I ended up knowing I wanted, I really just wanted to work in production. And I don't think I really knew what that meant. I just wanted to be part of like the filmmaking process in a more hands-on way. You know, and I again I didn't really know what that meant, but I knew that I wanted to figure that out. And I thought like the next step too that would be really cool is to like try and get within, you know, a major studio's walls. And so I was talking to people at SPA every day who they're building this animation division at the studio. And I was talking to some of the assistants over there, and they're like, look, we're gonna be hiring soon. You should just like come over and hang out and talk to us and you know, talk about what you want to do and your experiences. And one thing led to another, and I ended up getting a job on open season as the uh production office coordinator. I guess now that's sort of known as the central coordinator, but yeah, it it was a very easy way to sort of transfer the skill set and then learn about the entire pipeline at a very top-line level.

Speaker 2 8:16

I love that. I didn't realize you were there from like the beginning. I didn't either.

Speaker 8:20

Yeah, I was one of like the very first production people hired at the studio, you know, still kicking around. I don't know if they even really knew what to do with me, but I impressed somebody enough to get my foot in the door there.

Speaker 4 8:30

So that's so cool. You've seen it grow from the beginning. Before I do ask you this next question, I do want to ask you do you remember that you were in my interview for Spa back in like 2019?

Speaker 8:41

I do. I think I remember we haven't worked super closely together, but I mean, I obviously always see you around the studio, but I do remember interviewing you. I don't remember what show it was or what job it was for, but I remember meeting you very early on. How did it go? I think it went well. You're here.

Speaker 4 8:57

It went well. I do remember being asked in that interview, your career trajectory. You've gone from in LA, associate producer, then it looks like you went to Australia and you went back to coordinator, and then it looks like you went back up to production manager, but then you came back to LA and you went back to coordinator. Tell us about that. And I remember being like, Clint Hartball, okay. I do remember that interview being a lot of fun. I appreciated how blunt because I think I've always honestly been embarrassed about my career trajectory in that respect because of moving in internationally. It did stop my, I guess, progression as you'd expect.

Speaker 9:31

You did it though. I mean, you ended up where you're at now and you're still progressing. And animation's a little bit different because there's different titles, and different titles mean different things, other places. But you ended up being here now and you got a life experience. Like living in Australia is pretty cool. Who cares what the title is? You know, yeah, yeah. You're not alone.

Speaker 2 9:53

I like to joke that if you look at my resume or my LinkedIn, you can follow my midlife crisis by just the like interesting zigzaggy paths that's gone.

Speaker 10:02

You look at my LinkedIn, it's like, oh, look at the promise of this kid, and then he just stopped at Sony. And it's like 2004. What has he done since? I guess he's been there.

Speaker 2 10:12

No, now he's running the place.

Speaker 4 10:14

You're kidding? You did it. Okay, on to the next question. Can you tell us about your career path from production to fancy executive?

Speaker 10:23

Well, first of all, fancy is not an adjective in my title, but I appreciate you bringing that up. But you're very fancy I feel like I'm in fancy company. So to just continue on, I worked at Sony Animation Spa for about 10 years in production. And so doing what the two of you do, managing the various departments in an animation pipeline. I also bounced around and worked for SPA, which is Sony Pictures ImageWorks for our listeners. Sony Pictures ImageWorks does all of the animation production, the digital production for Spa's movies. And I would bounce around. Actually, I would work on a spa title and then I would go if there wasn't as much work. Spa wasn't as prolific as it is now. So there would be a kind of a movie and then there would be some downtime. And in those downtimes, I would shift over actually to work at Spa. And so I worked also on some like live action visual effects shows as well. That was a good 10 plus year experience where I really went from show to show and learned the animation pipeline. I worked on a bunch of movies that got made. I worked on uh a handful of things that didn't, which is, you know, part of this process as well. And then I was offered a job at Mattel, the toy company, to be a producer over there. And that was sort of me graduating into a producer role. And it was interesting because when I went to Mattel, I thought I was hired to be a line producer. And that I knew. Like I worked some content for toy brands and put schedules and budgets together and hire teams. And it was sort of a different, much smaller setup. But what I ended up finding out was there was this huge part of the job that they probably explained to me, but I just wasn't paying attention because I hadn't been in it on a job interview in like 10 years. But that was sort of to be, I guess, like a brand representative for the certain toy brands I was working. And what that entailed was not just trying to like figure out how and like plan these movies and webisodes and series that I was doing for some of these toy brands. It was also to really represent the content team, if you will, the animation. And there was even some live action and stop motion and stuff. But what I learned was I was sort of this brand representative that would have to work with the marketing teams and I would have to work with the publishing teams and the toy packaging teams. And it was sort of this big thing where it's like, okay, we have this particular toy line that's coming out in the fall. The content budget, if you will, is let's say $2 million. And this is everything you needed to know about the toy line, and this is all the other departments they're working in. Figure out what kind of content you're going to do. And this was sort of at the tail end of the direct to DVD movie, I guess. So I did a couple of those, and we did some stuff for Netflix and some YouTube series. That taught me a lot about branding and what franchises and sort of the things that I wasn't really paying attention to working in production, because in production you have, and I'm telling this to people that know this, you sort of put your head down and you're like, I'm in charge of this little bit, and I got to push it through. And this sort of gave me this 30,000-foot view over like sort of why the decisions are made within, you know, brands and franchises and that stuff. And it certainly helped me for my next role as a creative executive. But anyway, what Mattel taught me in my short stint there, which was about a year and a half, was that I learned a lot about franchises and development and also just how to be scrappy. We made a lot of sort of low budget stuff with small crews and I outsourced a lot of work and I worked with studios all over the world. And it gave me sort of the confidence that I can do things like this, you know?

Speaker 2 13:56

Quick before you move on from Mattel, did that freak you out when you learned the other part of the job? Because I'm hearing that and I'm like, oh my God, how would I approach this other much larger part of the job that I had no experience in? How did you even tackle that?

Speaker 14:11

You know, it it did freak me out because I just didn't feel like my brain was organized for that at that particular time. But it's sort of a jump in and swim situation. And I think before I'd worked in production, I wasn't necessarily working with brands and franchises, but I was working with a lot of like actors. And it's very much like you didn't think of it back then that that's a brand. I mean, obviously now there are influencers and that's what that has become. But back then it wasn't like that. But I think that it was a similar experience. You have a part in shaping a thing, you know. So I would say that what freaked me out was that it was like so much work. And I was talking to people that I wasn't used to, like marketing executives that just approach things in a different way, and I didn't know the language and it was very toy-centric, but it was exciting. I mean, it was definitely something new, but I I'm extremely grateful for that opportunity because I did learn a ton.

Speaker 2 15:06

Nice. I'm picturing you being like, give me back to that place where the acronym is SPA.

Speaker 15:11

Yeah, exactly. When I left Spa, I kept a really good relationship with the heads of that studio, which was Pam Marsden, who ran production at the time, and Christine Belson, who is still uh the president of Sony Pictures Animation. And she was actually just starting the studio and she had a lot of ambition for what she thought Spa could be. So anyway, I was at Mattel for about a year and a half. You know, I would check in with Pam and Christine every now and then. And I think they they reached out to me at a certain point and they're like, look, we're really busy right now. They were in production on five movies that were going to get released in two years. And they just said, look, look, we we would love to have you back in some capacity. You know, I started there, I was pretty young, I was a kid, and I just sort of knew the vibe and the energy. And I think that they sort of appreciated that I was somebody that could come in and like really fit into the culture and help guide them, guide the studio in whatever way that I thought was, you know, would be helpful. I think the term Pam used was I know where the bodies are buried.

Speaker 2 16:12

I was just thinking that I love her so much. Okay, so you came back to Spa. Remind me what your role was because it has since changed, but you came back as what?

Speaker 16:22

Right. So just to finish off that story when Pam, she was kind of like, think about what you would want to do and let's talk about if that makes sense. I did tell Pam, like, you know, I worked in production for a long time. I'm producing now. I have this sort of creative component to my job, which is also really nice. But the one thing that I think would be next for my career is I want to learn how to run a movie studio. So if there's a world where you're looking for some kind of production executive, give me a call. And sure enough, like a week later, she called me. She's like, okay, I figured it out. And I was like, oh shit, I guess I'm going back to spa. To answer your question, Natalie, I was brought in to be a physical production executive. And it was essentially to be like Pam's lieutenants and help her just figure out all the things that you need to know for like a top line level of production. So it's helping her obviously with like the budgets and the scheduling and the big picture planning and working with the other departments that help run the movie studio. And so it was really great for me to get sort of that 30,000-foot view because my first role at SPA was really just to be sort of in the trenches on and pushing through my one little important part of the much bigger production. Now it's sort of on the other side, looking down and saying, okay, what are all of the things we need to do? And that's like figuring out what the projects we want to push forward with in development are, what the projects that are currently going in production are, and sort of how to divide all of those resources. So it was very much a crash course in learning how to run and help run the nuts and bolts of the studio.

Speaker 2 17:56

That sounds impressive.

Speaker 17:57

It was fun. I mean, I had the best mentor in the world. I was just in whatever she said. You know, Pam's retired, she's the best and had an amazing career, but I've been fortunate enough to have some pretty great mentors in animation. So I've been able to learn on the job, but also just follow what people do very successfully.

Speaker 2 18:14

It makes sense, Kevin. I feel like in our experience back in your production days, I would say you were someone who's very good at delegating and very good with people. You can read the room, you can get along with probably everybody. So when I heard that you were in an executive role, I was like, that checks out.

Speaker 18:35

So nice. I feel like you have a lot of the same skills, Natalie. I think that's why we get along.

Speaker 2 18:40

Thank you.

Speaker 18:40

That was a fun one, by the way. We worked on the Smurfs together, right? Yeah. It was the first live action hybrid Smurfs. That was a ton of fun. There was a bunch of characters on that.

Speaker 2 18:51

That was a super fun team. That was my first show.

Speaker 18:55

Oh, I think I knew that. Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

Speaker 2 18:56

Yeah, production office coordinator. That was a really fun team.

Speaker 18:59

Yeah. That's what it's all about, too, right? You hope that you're working on a great project, but what's more important is that you're just surrounded with like really fun people. That's what makes production really, really fun because you're all sort of working towards the same goal, whether you're an artist or an executive or somebody on the crew that's to manage all the craziness.

Speaker 4 19:18

I know we've talked about this a lot on each episode with the people that you work with. And it's so cool just kind of learning and kind of growing with those people throughout the years. It's super gratifying.

Speaker 19:30

It's quite amazing. Like Natalie, you and I worked together and you've all gone on to work on some great movies and have this awesome career. And I think about the people that I was coordinators and APMs with, and everybody's like that stuck it out and was good, like went on to do awesome things. I think on Hotel Transylvania, which we worked on also together, I think Natalie, like, I was the Vizdev APM, and the story APM was Larry Jonas, who's producing a movie for us right now and ran Skydance production for a while. And then the editorial APM was Academy Award-winning producer Michelle Wong. You know, you all just kind of grow up together and they're like your class. Yeah. I think actually all the way back to like the mailroom and assistant days. Those are people that you sort of grow up with, and they're your fellow students and your fellow graduating students, and then you all go on to do these crazy amazing things. And that's pretty fun and rewarding.

Speaker 4 20:20

I love thinking about it like a class. I've never thought of it within that kind of frame. That's awesome.

Speaker 20:26

I don't know why I think of it as school, especially if it was a terrible student. But I think back at like my first job at Three Arts, I consider that like my grad school, you know, and I knew that I wasn't going to stay in representation, but I learned a lot about the business and I met all of these amazing people. And that chapter in my life, I think about it as a lot of learning. And you you do that as you move along. And even though I've been at Sony for like combined over 20 years, I keep sort of taking different classes, if you will. I'm lucky enough to go from one job to another where it keeps it interesting. And I'm just learning a ton and just sort of having this well-rounded experience.

Speaker 2 21:02

What I love about that, Kevin, is because you've had such a well-rounded experience and have been in the trenches of production, I thought you'd be the perfect guest to come on the show so I can ask you what do executives do all day? Because as you know, when you were in production, that's something we would probably joke about. Like, what do they really do? What are they doing?

Speaker 3 21:23

What do these people do?

Speaker 2 21:24

And I tend to kind of lump executives in one thing. Like they're all doing the same thing. I don't always know the roles. So I was very excited to have you come on and for me to just be like, tell me what they do. Because I could tell you what I think they do if you want me to paint a picture.

Speaker 21:39

Okay, why don't you start then?

Speaker 2 21:41

I think your butler wakes you up, your living butler that you make wear a tuxedo.

Speaker 21:46

I don't have a butler, but I have cartoon bluebirds that fly in.

Speaker 2 21:49

Okay, got it, got it. I was in the I was in the ballpark. Okay. They fly in and they're like, We've made your breakfast, sir. And you're like, Oh, thank you. And then you're like, you know what? But I think I wanna this morning read scripts by the pool with a mimosa. And so you text your assistant and you're like, hey, move all my morning meetings. And then your assistant has to move all the meetings they painstakingly put on the calendar. And so you read the scripts. And then eventually you waltz in around lunch and you shake hands and say, hey, and you do like finger guns, hey, so and so. And then afternoon, you know, some meetings going on, and you meet with a show that's like pretty far in production, they're doing a presentation, and then you're like, shoot, I should give a note. I'm an executive, I need to give a note. And you're like, uh, what if we change the main character's hair?

Speaker 3 22:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:41

From spiky to like long and curly, and the production team is like, oh, I don't know, that's a lot of work. And you're like, do it, I say it's so. And then you go, okay, I gotta leave relief to go to my kids' recital, and you're like, that was a productive day. That's kind of how wide picture executives in general.

Speaker 23:00

I mean, yeah, I mean, 100% accuracy. I don't know why I'm here. You can just give a lecture on that.

Speaker 2 23:07

Yeah, well, thank you for coming. Okay, great.

Speaker 23:09

Thanks. Thanks for having me. I'm gonna go to my kids' recital. Yeah, let's dig into it because uh I can see that being a perception. And certainly there are probably people that do that, and I just haven't figured out how I come from production, right? So I just like, how do I not make it as easy on myself as possible? I I wish I was just thinking mimosas by the pool. So, okay, to answer your question, creative executive, which I am now, job is essentially to identify projects that were hopefully going to adapt into film or television, identifying the talents. And then you sort of develop the projects in the early stages, focusing on script and also the visual language that's developing. But the whole job is to try and get a movie greenlit for theatrical distribution or set up a streamer, or if you're working in series, you're setting up a pitch to then take to a network or streamer and hope that they buy it. And then if we're lucky enough for all of that to happen, you help shepherd those projects along the way through delivery. That's sort of a creative executive. A production executive works hand in hand with the creative executive to just execute those plans. So it's again developing budgeting and schedules and working with the various other teams in like an overhead studio group. So that's like the recruiting teams and artist management, and just to make sure we're bringing in the right talent at the right time in development and production. And, you know, you help manage the producers and the production managers at a very top line level throughout the productions. And then I think if both of those jobs are being done efficiently, then what we're really doing as executives is just providing the resources that the creatives and the artists and the production teams need to execute and then getting out of the way for the filmmakers to really create something special. That's sort of like how I think of the job duties. And then to debunk the myth of an average creative executive's day, most of my day it's it's like lots of meetings, obviously, but there's a lot of reading, both with projects in production and development, but I'm also reading new writers and potential new material, which could come from anywhere, just trying to find IP or original ideas. A lot of times that's just like sourcing talent and material and talking to agents and producers and taking general meetings with writers and producers and artists and stuff. And so, like a lot of watching TV and just staying up to date with what's current and knowing who's out there. And right now I have two animated series in production. That's its own job. I mean, you're you're keeping up with scripts and visual development, and then you're making your way through the pipeline, looking at animatics, looking at animation, and just going all the way through delivery. And when it's series, it's on a very in a much tighter timeline than features usually are. And then just the volume of things. So my day is is sort of sucked up by like helping manage and drive and give creative notes to the projects that they're going along the way. But also a big part of my job is like finding new stuff and new talent and new people to bring into the studio to like keep making the good stuff.

Speaker 2 26:19

That part sounds fun.

Speaker 26:20

It is, it's a lot, but it is. And it's really rewarding when you're able to take something from the inception of an idea or just a filmmaker that you want to work with or a franchise that you've been in love with since a kid, and saying, hey, like if we can get the right people together and get the right uh stakeholders to really buy into this vision of the project, then you can take it all the way through. And coming up with the initial idea and who should do those all the way until like, oh, I'm looking at final lighting on a shot of a series or a movie. That is like the most rewarding thing.

Speaker 2 26:56

I mean, truly, I don't understand a lot of the executive world, but sometimes they'll have producer credits, right? Like, am I remembering you were executive producer on the Elvis project? That's right. How did that work?

Speaker 27:09

So, okay, that that actually helps me just finish my sort of long, long-winded story of like how I got here. But yeah, no, when they brought me back at Spa to be a physical production executive, I did tell both Pam and Christine that like I want to take some chances, and that's what I love about Spa, that we can do all kinds of different things. And so while I was sort of helping manage the nuts and bolts of the particular projects, I got really excited because when I was gone, the studio had optioned a couple television series that came their way. So one of the first things I did when I got back was I had just sort of checked in and was like, what's going on with these television series I'm hearing about? They sound amazing. And everybody was so busy because we were making so many movies that it sort of became a thing where Christine and Pam were both like, if you want to take a swing at maybe like helping figure those out, you should do it. And my first step was to like link arms with another executive at the studio, Katie Barron, who had a lot of television experience. And the two of us were like, well, let's let's just like we we have our day jobs, but let's see what we can do with some of this stuff. And then we we started bringing in more people at the studio that it had experience, but we ended up developing a bunch of series. We had a couple set up throughout town, and sometimes in development, like you know, you'll work on some things and they either get made or sometimes they just they don't. But we were fortunate enough to get two series maze. One was called Young Love, which is a spin-off of a short film we did called Hair Love, and that was for HBO Max. And then another one was a project called Agent Elvis, which was this sort of collaboration with Sony Music, and it was an adult animated series, super ultraviolet, silly, fun, goofy, center around Elvis as a secret agent. And I sort of loved the idea of like doing like a rock and roll-driven adult show. And I thought Spa was the only major studio that can like sort of pull this off. So that one kind of became my baby, and I helped develop it with a bunch of amazing people. And then I ended up just sort of assuming the role of what you would call an NWEP or non-writing executive producer. In television, usually there's, especially in animation, there's sort of like your writing showrunner, and then you have like your visual showrunner, and then you have somebody that's there to help sort of guide it, like the creative producer would on an animated feature. So anyway, I just sort of stepped into that role and did it. And I because it was our first series, I couldn't let it die. I just wanted to push it through because I was thought it was important for us to do these things. And while I was doing a production executive role, and then I was doing a lot of creative stuff with the series development, I started to sort of tow the line between production and creative executive and just sort of be down the middle. And then I was day-to-day on this animated series. And luckily enough for me, Christine and Pam and our executive at Netflix at the time, Mike Moon, were all hugely complimentary. And they actually gave me an executive producer credit on the show, which I was super grateful for. Because I felt I was doing the role, but that was also within my role as a creative executive. But they're like, no, you're going above and beyond, and you deserve an executive producer title. So that was really cool. And then from there, it because it was more heavily and creative, Christine just kind of said, you know, I want your focus moving forward at the studio, or at least for the next little bit, to really primarily be on creative. And so I sort of transitioned then from a physical production role to sort of a hybrid role. And then now for the last several years, I've been strictly a creative executive on Christine's team.

Speaker 2 30:46

That's so interesting for me to hear. I know we know each other, but it's like every time I see you, I'm like, oh, you're okay, cool. You've kind of like moved up or you're in like a different role now. And so it's fun for me to hear how that happened. Cause what I'm hearing, which I think is interesting, is you being like, oh, I'm interested in this. It seems like there's a need for help here, and I'm just gonna do it.

Speaker 31:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2 31:09

Which is why I find it interesting is I think for me, if I were in a similar situation, might be like, that's not my job. I don't want to do that until they'll pay me to do that. So I'm gleaning a little bit of advice from you, Kevin Noel. Like, there's some worth maybe in I don't even know how to phrase it, finding an area that needs help and just doing it and maybe hoping. I mean, I guess that depends on working with good people who notice it too. That's totally, totally.

Speaker 31:37

I mean, there's a couple things. One, I had been at Spa so long and I knew where the bodies were buried, but I had been at spa so long that I I sort of understood that I'm going back to a studio where one, there is this desire and mandate to do a bunch of stuff, but also there's just the kind of leadership that wants to take chances. And because we weren't so defined as a brand, we could really do anything. Then it was like, okay, let's try to really do anything. And so I think, yes, identifying a need, but identifying like what you want to do as well. That was an important part of it. And then yeah, I sort of like muscled my way into it. But I also understood the timing. A lot of everything in this business is just timing and seeing an opportunity and just going for it. I could have gone to Christine and Pam and been like, I want to do these series, and they could have just been like, no, don't do that. We're too busy. And then that would have been the end of the discussion. But I would be remiss if I didn't at least ask or try, you know.

Speaker 4 32:36

But Kevin, I think what's also so impressive is you have all of your production experience that you understand from the beginning to the end and the technical. You work so hard. I find that honestly really inspiring. And then you can like dive in. I think Natalie and I are like this that we do just like a challenge. Like you just dive in. That's been so much of my career, is just figuring it out as you go and doing the extra work to learn on the side of the.

Speaker 33:01

Well, you're making a podcast. I'm very good, by the way. I haven't even had a chance to say that what are you, four episodes deep. I get very excited when there's a new drop. You guys are doing great. But you're making it up as you go along, right?

Speaker 2 33:14

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Talk about like our production background is perfect for this. The stuff we run into, the times we have to pivot, you know? Absolutely.

Speaker 33:22

I figured out at some point in life that everybody's just sort of winging it. It's the fake it till you make it type thing. And like experience does help and it gives you a perspective. But a lot of times, especially in the thing like podcasting, which is a relatively new space and everybody's figuring out how to do it, what the formats are, you are just sort of making it up as you go along. But your experience in production can at least prepare you and keep you organized and understand like how to produce something. The two of you are producers now, you know. So in terms of your question, Alexis, working in production and how it's sort of informed my role as a creative executive. Yeah, you're right. I, my sort of road to becoming a development executive, if you will, is not a traditional one. Even though I started in the right place, like a lot of people that have my role probably started at a management or agency or something like that. And you work on the desk, you're an executive assistant to usually some kind of a producer or development executive. And then you're essentially learning how to do the job. And then once you can do the job and bring in projects and know all of the writers, then it becomes sort of a no-brainer to graduate you into an executive level. And we're very fortunate of our development team at Spa is incredible. And uh a lot of our uh creative executives and director level people, many of them were assistants at Spa that sort of went through like a training ground and uh a path to go. But mine certainly is different. I started in production and I was lucky enough to just sort of carve my path and find my way in. But hopefully, more production people that are interested in doing creative development would know that that's a possible path. And you do have certain advantages knowing how these things are made, like knowing how the sausage is made. Like for me, it's all about the application of what production's point of view would be on particular things. And I think where it can be helpful is just understanding and identifying like the complexity at an early stage. I could read a script and be like, oh, this is gonna be a $200 million movie because of this. And sometimes it's that's easier said than done, but it's being able to like sort of analyze those things and then to the note question, which is what Natalie, you were saying, kind of as a joke, the changing the hair color. But it is one thing that can certainly happen is like understanding what those decisions can mean and sort of also like knowing when to let go of things creatively because you know you're at a point where it will jeopardize production, right? And so having that sort of understanding, but it's tough like sometimes because animation is so iterative, and because you can sort of identify a problem in script, but not really be able to articulate it. You could just know something's off about it, and then it will move to boards, and you're like, oh, I could see it. And then sometimes, yeah, in an animatic, you'll be like, oh, this is why that didn't work, even though I didn't necessarily explain or or verbalize the note exactly. Sometimes you sort of need to see things move along, and then you need to identify, well, is it worth it? Like, what is that gonna do to production to change this little sequence? Because as you know, you can give a note in act three that if you want to go forward with it, that can take stuff all the way back to act one and set up. So yeah, it's just really understanding those things. And I think coming from production, I have a very, very good grasp and understand that if I'm gonna give a particular note or feedback on a creative thing, how that can affect. Now, sometimes as a creative exec, it's helpful to know that. And sometimes I just purposely forget it because I just want to give the note and I'm like, oh, what do you mean? You can't change the character's hair. So I try not to do that too much, but anyway.

Speaker 2 37:07

That's uh very appreciated, I'm sure. When you said, you know, describing your background in production and how helpful it is, and and production people should keep that in mind. I do know a lot of production staff who would be interested in a creative exec role. And I think what they feel is the roadblock is I think sometimes we can feel kind of pigeonholed in production, especially if you're good. And so I hopefully I'm not misspeaking for people, but I think they feel like the powers that be, the people that could help move them into that role, maybe see like, oh, that's a different skill set. It like sometimes it seems like the most common path to a creative executive role is starting as an assistant. And I just wonder, do you have any advice for people who are in production, don't want to go back to an assistant role, or maybe that is the path? Like, where can they even start if they're interested in that?

Speaker 37:58

Yeah, it it is a challenging one because you're right. I think a lot of the on-the-job training you would get as a creative executive is to work on a desk. I have had production staff reach out to me and say, well, what if I want to make a transition? And, you know, the easiest way to do that, which is not an easy thing. A lot of time people have spent so much time in this particular side of the production machine is to go back and be an assistant. I mean, work on a desk, read a lot of scripts, do coverage, learn that sort of side of the business, meet everybody, know all the names, all the players. And I don't say that to be like discouraging, but that is the most common way you're gonna be able to do it. But that said, look at my path. I mean, I just sort of barreled in there. And again, I got like super lucky because I was around people that were very supportive of that and timing is everything. But I will say if that is your ultimate goal, you gotta manifest it somehow. You gotta be willing to make some of those sacrifices too if you want to step back. But everybody's path is different. And I would say if you are in production and you were interested in working creative, the first thing you need to do is put that out in the world. You know what I mean? And don't do it in a way where you're not doing your day job, but do it in a way where it's like, look, I tell everybody one little thing of advice that I give to any executive or or somebody starting out is just to take every meeting. And it might be hard to get my calendar, but if somebody reaches out to me and says, I am interested in doing what you did, I will meet and I will talk to them and say, like, this is how I got there. Tell me about your situation and maybe I can be helpful in that way. But I think again, and I think we touched on this earlier, the worst anybody can say to you is no, but you have to ask the question. And I think you need to just put it out there in the world that you want to do this and then hear the advice and also just look for the opportunities. I'll say this. I didn't go back to Sony thinking, yes, the ultimate goal is I'm gonna be a creative executive, but I did want to learn that side of the business. And I, and no matter what, I wanted to just understand how the operation worked. And if there was an opportunity to work in creative, that would be great. It sort of all fell into place for me with a combination of luck and timing, but also pushing things through and seeing an opportunity. So I don't know if I'm really answering your question, but I think it's like manifesting it, putting out there in the world what you want to do, whether that's a creative executive or you want to be a writer, you have to let it be known and you got to talk to the people that are in those jobs and see how you can get there.

Speaker 2 40:27

I think I'm hearing also be a little bit of the squeaky wheel. Speaking for myself, sometimes I'm in there's something I want, I'll ask politely for it. And then when it doesn't work out, I'm like, well, F them. And then I move on, you know, and maybe that's not the best approach.

Speaker 40:40

Yeah. The good part of that approach is that you brought it up, you know what I mean? And that you you'll find a way to get in there. But yeah, I mean, the traditional route to a development executive is to work for a development executive. And if that's what's in front of you and that's the opportunity, then if where you really want to end up is with that particular role and that is the path, then you might have to say, okay, I'm gonna do that for a little bit. If somebody came from production and wanted to work on my desk, I already know that I'm getting somebody that has a very, very rich understanding and experience of what it takes to push these things through. And then it's just a question of, are they good at the job? Do they have good tastes? Like all of those things, you know? Does that answer the question?

Speaker 2 41:24

Yeah, it does. And I'm gonna pivot to a lighter question because I've been wanting to ask this. And as we're talking about assistance, I think it naturally leads into it. What was it like when you first had an assistant? I feel like that would be such a weird transition to be like, oh my gosh, I have an assistant that helps plan my whole schedule. And I mean, you know, we all know how hard assistance for me the mimosas at the Yeah, release the cartoon singing birds. I'm picturing for you, Kevin, like a Meryl Streep devil wears Prada situation. Was that the case?

Speaker 41:55

I would say that the devil wears Prada situation happened when I was the assistant.

Speaker 2 42:00

Oh no.

Speaker 42:01

No, no, no, I shouldn't say that. I honestly, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I was actually lucky enough to escape those situations. I've had great bosses, but you know, I've been around and seen some stuff because my day is filled with so many things and so many meetings. It it is, I believe, justified to have that kind of help because I have somebody that helps me read and stay on top of projects. But I think the devil wears Prada of it all. I think you treat people like you want to be treated. I kind of need all my former assistants to hire me in the future when they're running the industries. But no, no, it's definitely helpful and it's just a part of the team. You know what I mean? It's like having a PA and a coordinator and an APM and a production manager. Everybody sort of has their role on the team, and everybody has the same goal is to finish a movie or find some good shit to make. Yeah, definitely no Merrill Street action, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know.

Speaker 2 42:52

Just in your fashion.

Speaker 4 42:53

You're very fashionable.

Speaker 42:55

Uh, thank you.

Speaker 4 42:56

Part of being an executive is being social and on most of the time. You're taking a lot of meetings every day, often back to back. I'm just curious, how do you keep your cup full?

Speaker 43:07

Good question. It's crazy busy because there's so many different projects, and even just having two series and productions, it's like its own full-time job, but then having to find things and develop projects to then push them over the line. There's a lot going on. And yeah, you do have to be on most of the time. But I hope this isn't a cop-out answer. But it's like it's sort of easy to do when you love your job. Like I'm fortunate enough to be in a place, and it hasn't always been this way in my career, but I love my studio. I love the people I work with, and I love my particular role at the studio. And so it's sort of easy because I care. And I'm finally in a place now where like every single one of my projects I love and I would go see in the theater or go see on a streaming service, whatever. So it's easy when you're passionate about it and care about the results. What I try to do is also be a cheerleader for productions and reminding everybody why we were. Here in the first place. And so just putting on a good face is easier when you really, really, really do believe in the projects. And it's also like the training I learned like back in the day where I was working in talent management and you have your clients who there are good days and there are bad days, but you always have to be the constant of like, hey, let's move through this because we're here to do some great work.

Speaker 2 44:22

I consider you to be pretty extroverted. Would you describe yourself as an extrovert?

Speaker 44:27

I think so. Yes. I mean, okay, so definitely like my work persona is very extroverted because I especially now that is a big part of the job. But that doesn't mean I don't come home and I'm exhausted and I'm like, okay, I want to be an introvert for a while. And my wife's like, no, no, no, we we're doing this thing for our neighbors. We're having a party. You better fucking stay on work mode, dude. Or like, yeah, where's the where's that Kevin? Keep that Kevin around. And I do think that's part of the job. And even in production, like I'm calling myself a cheerleader, but geez, uh, production staff has to be the biggest cheerleaders because you you work with all kinds of different personalities, but you need them to get shots done. And you know, so it's the same sort of thing. You need to like be the person that pushes it through, even when you're tired and you've going towards a screening or there's a crazy recording session or whatever, you have to be on also.

Speaker 2 45:15

Yeah.

Speaker 45:15

How do you do it? I know, right?

Speaker 2 45:18

Uh, you know why I asked the extrovert question? Because we've been talking a lot about this at work. Just are you an extrovert or introvert? And I think the textbook definition is extroverts get energy from social situations where introverts it drains them. So for myself, I enjoy socializing. I mean, I have a freaking podcast, but even just with my own friends, right? I like clearly love to socialize with the people I love, but I feel more depleted than I do energized. And so I was thinking, well, if you're an extrovert, that would be helpful in that position of someone who needs to be on because they like kind of thrive on that energy.

Speaker 45:52

I think I just by nature of what the role is, I'm I'm an extroverted person and I think I'm extroverted in real life. Sometimes it does deplete you a little bit. And so, like I said, I can come into my personal, my home setting and be like, I don't want to talk to anybody. And my Natalie is like, no, no, no, you don't get to choose that. This is actually where you need to be the real you, you know.

Speaker 2 46:14

So yeah, I was gonna say, your Natalie, Kevin. Do you want to elaborate? We haven't talked about how Kevin's wife's name is Natalie, and that is my name. So when we work together, I occasionally got an email or text that was not meant for me, that was meant for Kevin's wife, Natalie. Amazing. Nothing inappropriate, but it was funny to get an email that was like, hey, um, this is the photo I'm thinking we should use for our Christmas cards. What do you think? How was the photo? And I'd be like, You guys look great. You could have gotten a haircut, but I think this will work, you know.

Speaker 46:47

Yeah, and then I'm like, what is she talking about? And I'm like, oh, right, wrong Natalie. My my wife, Natalie, knows you as well, Natalie. And it was funny because when I was like, Oh, I'm gonna be doing this podcast, and it's uh from my coworker, Alexis, and then Natalie, who I used to work with. You remember Natalie? And she was like, Oh yeah, Taco Bell Natalie? And I was like, Yes, so now I'm flipping it on you. Explain Taco Bell.

Speaker 2 47:13

Oh my gosh. There is a period of my life where probably a lot of people knew me as Taco Bell Natalie, simply because I enjoyed Taco Bell and I must have talked about it enough. But in the reason your wife knows me as that is because we were all at a rap party. I want to say one of the smurfs. It wasn't something I worked on. And I was super hammered as remotes people and wanted to keep the night going. And so I I kept inviting people to my after party quotation fingers. But then I would just text a map of the closest Taco Bell to everyone. Like, was it come to my after party? And people were like, Great, send me the info. And it was just a link to the nearest Taco Bell. And then forgot about it. And I was in a car with two friends of ours, Jonna Tedesco, and Jeff Wong. And we went and ended up getting tacos that we were like, hey, look at Taco Stand and ate there. But then I got legit tacos. Yeah, but then you texted, and you and Natalie were like, Where are you? We're at the Taco Bell. And I was like, oh shit, I forgot about my after party.

Speaker 48:16

I sure we kept the after party going that night, so all good.

Speaker 2 48:20

Oh dear. Oh dear. Well, I'm glad we got Taco Bell in.

Speaker 4 48:23

What's your favorite production book that you've may have read in your past?

Speaker 48:28

Just off the top of my head, this isn't related to animation production and it's sort of a filmmaking book, but I remember when I was in high school, I read Robert Rodriguez's book. It was called Rebel Without a Crew. I'm almost positive Rebel Without a Crew, Robert Rodriguez. And it was the story about how he made the movie El Mariachi in like the mid-90s, and then he sort of spun it into uh a movie called Desperado, and then he did all like Sin City and all of these movies. But anyway, this book was about how he made this movie for like $7,000 or something, and he went and he shot a movie, this big like action movie, and how he raised the funding. He was like donating blood and like getting all this money from that, donating who knows what else he was donating. But anyway, it's it's about how he raised the money and then how he went in and shot the movie. And it's a movie with a bunch of dialogue, but there wasn't sync sound. He used the 16 millimeter camera that wasn't recording sound, so he would fake it and he would shoot the actor speaking the dialogue, but then he would go and shoot a bunch of insert shots. So then whenever the dialogue goes out of sync, he would just cut like randomly to a clock or something. And I found it so inspirational about just like how you could take the resources you have and through creativity, like make something really cool. And a lot of the choices that were made on that movie were because of production necessities, but you could never tell. They felt like aesthetic choices. And you have to do that in animation actually a lot, where sometimes you're reusing sets or you have a billion characters, but you don't have the budget to do that. And you sort of manipulate an asset like a character, you squash and stretch them a little bit, and now you have a new character. And the book is not about animation at all, but like filmmaking is very much about using the resources you have, figuring out creative compromises to make something feel bigger than it is, and you have to do that in animation. So yeah, that was a book I you know I read like 30 years ago or whatever, but it's always stuck with me. And there have been some animation production books, but not a ton. And I would say I actually think it's time for a new one. And I think the two of you could write a pretty good one.

Speaker 2 50:33

I was just gonna say, shouldn't the three of us write one?

Speaker 50:35

I mean, I'll be there to support you and I'll give you creative notes. But honestly, I I know there's like a producing animation book, like a textbook type thing, but the technology is always changing, even though the pipeline itself stays the same, but those things can always be updated. And so anyway, there hasn't been a really good book in a long time. And I think uh, I don't know, you should consider it. You could even call it the production desk. See, here look at these great ideas we give you.

Speaker 2 50:58

Look at you. This is why you're the SVP of creative of a big major studio.

Speaker 51:04

Because I could tell other people what to do.

unknown 51:06

Yeah.

Speaker 51:08

I think you should think about it in all your spare time, uh, you know, with your your regular job and this, yeah, in all our all our spare time.

Speaker 2 51:15

We just we sleep too much. That eight hours of sleep is really cramping our creative goals.

Speaker 51:20

You need the cartoon bluebirds to wake you up.

Speaker 4 51:22

Oh man, that is like a beautiful full circle right there.

Speaker 2 51:27

I do want to ask this very important question. What is the most executive sounding sentence you've heard yourself say recently? One where like your younger production self would be like, oh God.

Speaker 51:39

Fucking eye rolly.

Speaker 2 51:40

Yeah.

Speaker 51:41

You know something that I hear a lot of executives say, and I have said this recently, which is why I'm answering this question, but there's a lot of yes and. So somebody will give a note, and then another executive will be like, and I'm gonna yes and that. I think that's the thing. I think that's what they say, yes and like I'm gonna yes and that and say this. And it's almost like I don't actually have a note myself. So I'm just gonna say I support that, and here's like one other random thing. I will say this a lot of times it's a studio giving notes, and then maybe if you're working with a streamer, let's say, or an executive in distribution, and then you're working with producers. And so there are a lot of times where people say a lot of the same stuff or they're scratching at the same stuff, and they say it differently, and you're just as a filmmaker, you're trying to understand what the note behind the note is. That's another fucking executive thing I just said, and a note behind the note. But it's true, it's trying to figure that out.

Speaker 4 52:32

One thing that I'm just so in awe of, Kevin, is like when you were describing what you do and just how much you're across. My brain immediately thought too the day-to-day being in edit, and as you're ramping up to a screening and how it's so much work. But then I'm like, my God, it's so different. The comparison of the two, I just thought was kind of interesting.

Speaker 52:50

I would say that like production experience does prepare you for that because no matter what, you sort of have to be as organized as possible. And if you're working in edit, you might just strictly be paying attention to the boards that are coming in and the script and how they're different and all that stuff. But there's what, 32 sequences in a movie? You have to know where every one of those things are, and you have your whiteboard and you move things around, is sort of a similar trick. For me, it's like I have a ton of projects. The two projects I have in production are sort of going, so I know, like, okay, I'm gonna get a script in a couple weeks, or I'm gonna get a couple scripts in a couple weeks, and I'm gonna get an animatic after that. And then the other show is we're trying to figure out design. It's sort of like I can see and I know when those things are coming. And the difficult thing is like the other projects in development where it's like, I'm supposed to get a script this weekend, but it might push. And then all of a sudden it comes in and I have to drop everything and be like, okay, this is now the most important thing. And then if, you know, I'm chasing like an IP holder because I really think like spot can make a great movie about this. And so just like knowing when to put your foot on the gas and when to take it off. I think in production, fires happen and they get crazy. More often than not, you can see them coming a mile away because you know, well, we have a screening in May, and the next three weeks of my life is gonna be hell because everything's to that. And then it'll come down a little bit, right? And so I could sort of see that with my projects in production. And it's a little bit hard to anticipate all of the other stuff, but that's just sort of what the job is, you know.

Speaker 2 54:21

What's striking me is I feel like going from production to that type of role, it would be such a big difference going from production where you have a lot of these milestones. The whole thing is you've got a schedule and you've got to make it to the end and you work backward from when you need to deliver. Where in your role, I'm assuming there aren't these very specific milestones. I'm assuming it's not like we need to acquire three series by June 27, or are there some internal milestones you need to hit?

Speaker 54:50

Yeah, that's a very good observation. We want to have a pretty consistent output. I'm I'm not saying anything official here, but like if we could do two movies a year or maybe two movies every 18 months or whatever that looks like, you have to, especially as a production executive, one of the key parts of my job was just sort of looking at the calendars. Right now we're working on a bunch of things that will come out in 27, 28, 29. Thinking about, well, what do we have lined up for 2030? What do we have lined up for 2031? What do we have lined up for 2032? First of all, just going into the 2030s is that's ridiculous. All that to say, you're sort of working backwards like you would in production when you're planning that out because you know, okay, let's say we have a slot, we want to put a movie out in fall of 2029. We know that in order to hit that, we have to have a movie greenlit by, let's say, fall of 2025 and give ourselves four years to make a movie. You know, so there's a lot like, especially in the production executive role, if you think of like a waterfall schedule and you narrow it down to just like its basic footprint, then you're working backwards from there. We have these big sort of sheets that's like, okay, we have a release in 2030. Let's say fall of 2030, we have a movie. This is where we need to be by now, by spring of 26. And this is where that particular show will be in production. And so these are all of the people that we anticipate to be at the studio at that time. And then take that movie and stack all the other ones that are happening at the same time. And that sort of gives you this like snapshot of what the studio looks like and who's there and how many people are working at the time and the people you need to hire. And then what are the resources and support you need for that? So that's a lot of like the physical production executive is not necessarily looking at, well, here's the milestones for what a particular production needs. It's like, here are the milestones for what the studio needs to crank out, to hit a mandate of as many movies as you want to do, whatever that is.

Speaker 2 56:49

So for something like according to our schedule, we'll need to have a movie greenlit by such and such date. Working backward from that in your role, is it like, okay, I need to buy a script by X date?

Speaker 57:02

Okay, so that's an interesting thing, but that sort of touches on like what do you need to have a movie greenlit? Probably shouldn't get too much into the specifics, but we need to have a solid script, a solid filmmaking team, sort of a visual understanding of what the movie is and what the story you want to tell is, and all of those sort of basic things. So then when it's like, okay, the studio thinks we should make this movie and we want it for this particular time, how fast can you make it? So, like a lot of my job is like getting those things ready and finding a project, whether it's with a creator, like it's a creator-driven thing that comes in as an original idea or it's IP that we work with rights holders and then we build the team around that. It's all sort of the same goal. Let's get this package together so we can go to the studio or go to a streamer and say, here's a movie we believe in. Here's everything you need to know about it. If the answer is yes, then we're building the team and we're getting into this development into pre-production stage. The designs become less about like this is what we think the movie is looks like, and more like, oh, these are the assets that we're putting together to then inform production.

Speaker 2 58:16

It's a lot more work than I thought, Kevin.

Speaker 58:18

I mean, we do it from the pool.

Speaker 4 58:21

With a mimosa.

Speaker 2 58:22

Okay, good, good. I'm glad some of that was true. I don't want to keep you forever, but I do want to say thank you for doing this podcast episode. I thought it was so fun to dig into what do executives really do. We can kind of eye roll a little bit in production. So I thought this was great.

Speaker 4 58:41

You've been seriously so incredible. It's been so interesting learning about a glimpse behind the curtain for what you do. So thank you.

Speaker 58:49

You're very welcome. Thank you for uh having me and congratulations on this podcast. You both are doing something really, really cool. I think it's been needed for a long time. Look, movies wouldn't get made without production. That's how it's done. So I can't wait to hear more episodes.

Speaker 2 59:02

Thank you, Kevin.

Speaker 4 59:06

I loved that interview. I am so curious what you thought.

Speaker 2 59:12

Oh, I thought it was so fun. I feel I don't know if surprise is the right word, but I was like, oh, I think I actually have a new respect for animation executives. I don't know. It was just sort of cool to get into like I mentioned before, the different types of roles and a minutiae. Yeah, and thinking about working backward from we want this mini movies coming out this year and working back from that and what that looks like, I thought was really fascinating and how it actually does tie into production like more than I realized.

Speaker 4 59:50

It was so gratifying to hear that they kind of approach things how we do on a bigger, like more macro level. So I thought it was really fascinating that it is you're always working backwards from the screening date or whatever that milestone is to make sure that you're running whatever department you're working in with like this certain time frame that you have. It was cool to hear that there are more similarities than I would have thought.

Speaker 2 1:00:12

Yeah, same. I was actually surprised by that. Also, how hard that must be to plan for what do we want to put out in the world in 2028 or 2029 or 2030? What's even gonna be relevant? That was interesting for me to be like, gosh, because it takes so freaking long to make things. That's yeah, that's topical.

Speaker 4 1:00:32

Yeah, agreed. And especially with what's happening politically right now and needing escapism. It is such a interesting component to all that.

Speaker 2 1:00:42

You know what else we didn't get into that I wanna talk about now is I feel like Studio Execs are known for certain types of notes given. And I want to know like what are some of your favorite?

Speaker 4 1:00:56

The leap from screening one to screening two is they always have to go the complete opposite direction tonally. So, or or like it's skewing too young, make it older. I think that's a really common note that I've seen. What are the most common notes that you've heard in your experience?

Speaker 2 1:01:14

Oh, make it funnier, which will just come up at any point. If you're making a comedy, which is often the case in animation, make it funnier, make it more like insert popular movie. Maybe it's not as overt as make it like K-pop demon hunters, but you know that's kind of what they're going for, you know, like whatever the most popular movie is at the time, it's like, oh, let's make it a little more like this, or every studio wants its minion. So whenever there's some side characters, it's always like, How do we make this its own sequel?

Speaker 4 1:01:46

Well, it's always searching for what is that character that is charming and will like be a good tie-in for kids and merchandise. Like it's always like trying to find.

Speaker 2 1:01:57

It's so funny. Sometimes when I'm watching a movie, not even an animated movie, just any movie, if there's like a lot of backstory front-loaded at the top of the movie, I'm like, that feels like an executive note. I feel like that comes up a lot. They're worried the audience isn't gonna follow someone's story. I agreed.

Speaker 4 1:02:15

But I just want to say there was an executive on Transformers One who was so lovely and he would always acknowledge everyone in the room. And I mean to like down to the smallest person, stature-wise. And that was always so appreciated, such a legend within the industry. He used to run Warner Brothers and had actually really good notes as well.

Speaker 2 1:02:38

I was just gonna ask that. I was gonna say, but how were his notes?

Speaker 4 1:02:41

His notes were really intelligent. They're like, damn, I wish I could be on that level of like a story mind and know exactly, especially because he's so experienced, he's seen it all, and he's just so good at being like, this is the problem. And he had a great relationship with our director and producer, so they were able to really like help Shepard and make the changes. I think we've talked about this when we had Tyree on with the more director-centric episode. It is a director's superpower to constantly pivot with executive notes, and that is something that I'm always so impressed by. I know they're in it, they know the story so well. So they're able to like riff within that frame of mind. But I know that there's so many curveballs that execs do throw out over the course of a film, and it is so interesting seeing creative have to like take that on and figure out the way forward. And sometimes whether they are not taking on a note and then having to deal with that outcome.

Speaker 2 1:03:36

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, differentiating between do we have to take that note? Or being open to like maybe it's right, you know, and trying out something that's different than you thought. That's true. I should admit, I've also worked with executives who give good notes. They're not all just make it funnier, but some of those cliche notes are funny. My favorite actually is when a note is given that's really small, you know, like, could you add more cars to the street or something? And it's like, okay, sure. And you're like, oh, good. It's good that they're giving those small notes and not blowing up the movie with big, gigantic notes. That's usually a good sign that we're like doing a good job.

Speaker 4 1:04:14

Oh my God. Especially when you're at that certain point of production, you're like, please no, please no. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:04:19

And if it's just just like, oh, you just want another, yeah, a bigger window on the building, you got it. Like, change the color of that? Sure.

Speaker 4 1:04:28

Ah, another episode in the can, episode eight. We're getting up there. Eight is also my favorite number, oddly enough. So lucky eight. Exciting.

Speaker 2 1:04:38

Right. We got a lot more lined up, so I'm excited to get back to editing and share some more with everyone. Well, more earballs to come. What's that? What's an earball? And that's the ending of the episode. It's perfect. See you all later. Ciao.

Speaker 4 1:04:56

You've been listening to the production desk. We are our own producers.

Speaker 2 1:05:02

Outro by Marcus Taylor. If you have a moment, we'd love a review wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find the production desk on Instagram and Facebook. For any episode ideas, please reach out.